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Tuesday, April 12, 2005
I was here!
Aren't semi-palindromic consecutive blog titles fun?
So, IPB 2.1 continues and this last few weeks I've been concentrating on the ACP. There are a few reasons that the ACP has needed a darn good sorting out which I touched on during my last blog entry.
In its simplest form, the back-end code needed sorting out. It's mainly a syntax / tidy thing than a refactoring. Obviously the new IPS kernel stuff has to be implemented but for the most part, BBEdit's regex/grep search and replace takes care of the donkey work. As I'm going through the ACP I'm starting to pull the hard coded HTML out of the source files and into ACP skin files. I won't have the time to complete this process - that can wait until IPB 2.2 (or more likely IPB 3.0) but it does allow some more imaginative ACP layouts.
The biggest front-end change has been the introducting of top level 'tabs'. These tabs allow the admin easy access to 5 main sections (the screenshot here only has four. Another "admin" tab has since been introduced to remove some of the weight from "Tools & Settings"). These sections are "Content Management", "Look & Feel", "Tools & Settings" and "Admin". Each section has its own menu set and it makes it a little more logical to navigate. It's less intimidating for those new to IPB too.
It also makes the "per admin" permissions easier to manage. You can opt to lock an admin out of certain tabs completely or only allow partial access. Another plus (and the motivation for doing this) is that it ties in with IP.Dynamic and our other project which is under development giving the IPS applications a fairly universal feel.
I've also cleaned up some other areas. A bit of DHTML has helped combine the "manage forums" and "manage moderators" into one screen. (Screenshot)
A new section almost completely copied from IP.Dynamic (that's how good the new IPS kernel is, I can virtually share ACP files between IPB and IPD) is the 'components' framework. This allows one to administer their plug-ins and add-ons from the ACP. A picture is worth a thousand words, so here's a thousand words.
An API is going to be written to allow developers a quick way to manipulate the component DB data making updating and installing new tools a little easier. Naturally, this will be documented and made available to everyone.
I think that about covers it. I'm going to make some new screen-shots up for an official announcement later this week which will also include the front-end stuff that's changed.
April 12, 2005 | Permalink
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» More Invision Innovation from jeremy.omegavortex.com
I'm a frequent reader of Matt Mecham's Blog, as you might have guessed from the link in the "Blogs I Frequent" list on the right. I visited his Blog yesterday to see if there were any updates, and he's put up some more information on IPB v2.1.
He's ... [Read More]
Tracked on Apr 13, 2005 6:45:14 PM
» Groove River from Michael's Blog
A little announcement about a little project myself and Mohan have been working on.
Its called GrooveRiver, all I can say at the minute is that its a service aimed at local bands and singers.
Here is the initial website design
[attachmentid=13... [Read More]
Tracked on Apr 17, 2005 8:48:24 PM
Comments
It's such a pity I have absolutely no use for a forum any more - this all looks so lovely, I'm tempted to buy a license just to play with it on my localhost server...
Posted by: Matthew | Apr 12, 2005 6:11:06 PM
Matt, does the new components system and API mean that in some future release it won't be needed anymore to edit IPB's core files in order to add features yourself? (by uploading XML components in the ACP which contain the modifications)
Posted by: Franklin | Apr 12, 2005 7:06:06 PM
Other projects...Whats them?
Also this new version is looking fine, looking forward to using it. Hope I dont loose all my mods - the arcade is a must if nothing else.
Posted by: Michael | Apr 12, 2005 7:58:43 PM
Loose all your mods? That will definitely occur but it is more than worth it. This is such a large upgrade that I'm sure you will need to delete all your files besides uploads/ style_* and conf_global.php. Even though I do that regardless it will be required this release I think since there is a whole new kernel.
Therefore meaning all mods that work with 2.0.3 will need to be upgraded to 2.1.0. But Matt said it isn't difficult, "the arcade is a must"? Yeah right! Have you not been active in the customer forums where Matt told us about all the security issues within the arcade?
Anyways, I have said it more than once, IPB 2.1.0 is looking great. I really can't wait.
Posted by: Logan | Apr 12, 2005 8:05:07 PM
"Have you not been active in the customer forums where Matt told us about all the security issues within the arcade?"
This just confirms what I already knew to be true... that staff from IPS use the "Customer Forums" as a way to deliver important information to "customers only", yet they ban paying customers from accessing those forums just for posting negative feedback. That's just palin wrong.
Posted by: Gregg | Apr 12, 2005 8:59:06 PM
The reason I put active in there is because because the topic was really active so it would be hard for anyone to miss it. And I said the customer forums specifically because well that is where they are, and Matt just casually mentioned it.
And "important information" to customers only? No, the arcade and other modifications are not supported by IPS in any way. And so what if he did only mention it in the IPS Customer Forums? Why would he make some big announcement about it when he has nothing to do with the arcade?
Posted by: Logan | Apr 12, 2005 9:48:33 PM
Greggish,
A customer had his board hacked and I discovered that a third party hack, the "Arcade" was how the attacker got in. Nothing more, nothing less.
There was no big customer only announcement about it. If there was a need to shout about it, I'd do so in the news forum where everyone can see it.
Posted by: Matt | Apr 12, 2005 10:02:14 PM
WoW, I'm loving that main ACP panel, I'm not to sure on the gray for the tabs though, it jsut doesn't "fit in" with the IPB colour scheme IMO. What does it matter though? Only admins go in ther :D.
Good Work Matt =D I'll be waiting for the release ;).
Posted by: Oblivion. | Apr 12, 2005 11:01:55 PM
I know it's still an in-progress shot, but I'm not so sure about the manage forum/moderator interface. It seems to be cramming too much into too small a space. There are definitely some relatively confusing elements in there. For instance, the checkbox that is to the side does not give any indiciation as to it's purpose until you scroll all the way to the bottom (which if you have a lot of forums, would be a long way away).
With all the subforums and moderators shown at once, the visual space taken up per forum puts too much out of view and makes the user exert more effort in scrolling up and down the screen. This means they have to keep more in memory about what they just saw. An example of a good method of compensation for this happens on the forums when you select multiple posts in a topic as a mod and the button at the bottom left of the topic shows the number selected. However, I don't know if you can get away with such a technique in this format. Instead, you might see about reducing the vertical space taken up by making the list of moderators hidden until a "show moderators" link or button is clicked. The same could go for the subforums list. Perhaps use something like the List view in the Finder for the display of subforums so you don't have to load a separate page to edit them.
Have you done a full usability study (heuristic analysis, expert review, use case surveys, etc) on the application? Doing so could definitely give you a major boost on the competition, because I don't think vB or phpBB has been doing them :)
One other thing is the use of Apple's images in the application. I don't think Apple likes that very much :X
Posted by: Tim Dorr | Apr 12, 2005 11:11:06 PM
Arcade is a must at the minute - its what got my board so popular with the students.
Maybe ill sneak it out. Ill see. It shouldnt need much updating though.
Posted by: Michael | Apr 12, 2005 11:27:24 PM
I fully agree with Tim's comment on that part.
Posted by: Logan | Apr 13, 2005 12:12:10 AM
I agree with Tim and Logan too. It does not look inviting at all, rather confusing.
I hope that while you're busy on the html of the ACP, you also have a look at how it displays in IE :)
Untill now it has always looked a bit like a "beta" version ;)
I like the idea of the tabs a lot...
Posted by: Zoruglu | Apr 13, 2005 12:23:18 AM
Wow, Matt... very nice work. I love the new admin cp.
Posted by: eXaulz | Apr 13, 2005 1:35:48 AM
I had already done that, Tim. :)
http://www.invisiondynamic.com/screenshots/acp-forums2.gif
I've also changed the color of the tabs to a blue hue to tonally match the rest of the ACP.
Posted by: Matt | Apr 13, 2005 9:43:08 AM
Not relying too heavily on JavaScript/DHTML, are we Matt? I administrate two IPB forums myself, and I prefer surfing without JavaScript turned on... It would be a bit stupid if it was impossible to use the system without JavaScript.
Posted by: Veracon | Apr 13, 2005 1:20:57 PM
You'll need to have javascript enabled to use the IPB ACP.
It's impossible to create a feature rich UI without using DHTML. I might at some point created another ACP skin that doesn't require javascript but it will be very basic.
Posted by: Matt | Apr 13, 2005 1:27:30 PM
It's looking much better now indeed!
Posted by: | Apr 13, 2005 7:02:14 PM
It may be rather difficult to create a feature rich UI without DHTML but it is not impossible, and anyone who says so is ignorant. Not everything pretty and useful and clever needs to be dynamic on the client side, the page refresh and server side scripting is equally powerful, but perhaps more difficult and hence it's apparent why you've opted for the "easy" DHTML way out.
People have long since created powerful administration interfaces without JavaScript -- why is it just because the one you've created is particularly useful that you think those of the past are just that -- only of the past?
Posted by: | Apr 13, 2005 7:34:48 PM
It would be great to have somewhere a link to some forum wide permissions, like josh is adding to the Gallery: http://forums.invisionpower.com/index.php?automodule=blog&cmd=attach&id=55
It would really save time and reloads...
Posted by: mikee | Apr 13, 2005 8:02:44 PM
"..hence it's apparent why you've opted for the "easy" DHTML way out."
I don't know of another method that allows you to hide and/or show divs without javascript. By all means, educate me. :)
Posted by: Matt | Apr 13, 2005 8:59:12 PM
I second mikee's suggestion. Forum wide permission masks would be really nice, instead of editing them for each individual group :).
Posted by: Logan | Apr 13, 2005 9:03:33 PM
With the API thing being avialable to everyone.
Does this includes non-customers creating add-ons?
Chad
Posted by: Chad | Apr 13, 2005 11:00:26 PM
Its nice to see the Intergration with IPD, which is what I Assume the 4 tabs at the top are for. Will this mean that thier will be one AdminCP For a whole site; becuase if you can achive that, Invision Products will easily beat all open-source alternatives & vB.
The Great thing about all the Features being introduced to IPB is that the board doesn't Feel Bloated, while the 2.1 Release will easily bring IPB (Usefull) Functionality up to par with vB.
After Reading the Comments about Javascript/DHTML, i have to say that some of the Opinions don't Really make Sense to me. Recently I was looking into what Javascript Powered Technologies such as HTML DOM and DHTML can Exactly do, and while it can be hard to implement and not compatible with Every Browser, it is simply the most effective ways of doing some things. It is True Server Side Scripting is Powerfull, but it lacks the Flexibilty needed for Some Tasks. The best thing about IPB is that it uses (usually) the most Appropriate Technology for the Task at hand. My Suggestion is to Upgrade your Browser. Having said that, a non-Javascript version wouldn't be bad, especially for basic administative tasks, as on some public machines Javascript isn't Enabled.
I do like the idea of having forums and moderator controls in one.
P.S.
I Love the idea of the AdminCP IPS Newsfeed.
Posted by: Swords | Apr 13, 2005 11:26:01 PM
"I don't know of another method that allows you to hide and/or show divs without javascript. By all means, educate me. :)"
Page refresh css alteration with variable tracking. It's tedious and sometimes cumbersome, but not impossible to make a useful interface.
Perhaps you should think less of just using 'div's there are other methods of presenting data than hiding and showing layers on a page.
Posted by: | Apr 13, 2005 11:58:20 PM
^^
I'm sure your 56K users would really love a page that is constantly refreshing... JavaScript adds a layer of logic to HTML that can be used to improve reponsiveness of interfaces, thereby improving usability.
Denying the use of new technology for the few remaining individuals that don't want to accept it ruins things for the majority. We have highly usable and responsive interfacet as a result of these technologies, but for some reason some individuals still want to live in the past. Do you want us to all be still using Gopher and Newsgroups? Just because it's new doesn't mean it has to be feared. (But hey, it's not even that new anymore!)
It's just a lot of programmers are still stuck in the HTML 4.01 mindset and need to look towards XHTML/CSS/DHTML interfaces. There are still a lot of new usability challenges introduced, but if you're not stupid about it, they should not present a challenge. A lot of desktop application principles apply back to dynamic website interfaces.
Posted by: Tim Dorr | Apr 14, 2005 8:59:02 AM
